My friend Hani is a workaholic. He dates often but only at his own convenience. He’ll go out with the girl he’s seeing once during the week and once on the weekends. These are not frigid rules, but his work, interests and hobbies come first. He just started dating Dina, she’s 27, been single for just over a year now and she’s always up for a good time- at least that’s what she claimed when they met.
They met at a bar and hit it off right away. A few weeks later he introduced her to his friends and things seemed to be off to a good start. She made it a point to constantly remind him of how independent and successful she is and he loved it. It was so refreshing for him to finally find an easy-going girl.
But he was wrong- she finally dropped the bomb on him this weekend during dinner.
“I wanna know if you are serious about us” she announces right off the bat.
He was caught off-guard but was also genuinely disappointed. They’ve been together for 4 months. He understood exactly where the question would lead to and felt betrayed that he suddenly had to provide her with a relationship forecast. He explained to her that he simply wanted to have a good time with her, without necessarily “planning” for something to happen. If what they had would develop into something down the road, then great, but he wasn’t willing to make any commitments for the future so soon just to put her at ease.
She was appalled by his reply, her eyes swelled with tears as soon as the words left his mouth. “Then this is a waste of my time!” she confessed.
Hani did not see that one coming either. And mind you he doesn’t have commitment issues. All along, Dina seemed like the perfect laid-back girl. She kept differentiating herself from the crowd and that’s what kept him into her. Now, she was having a mini-tantrum about their future when it hit him, he didn’t even know her that well.
The point is Middle Eastern girls are constantly perceived as girls who are on the prowl for a husband. Of course, that’s just another generalization amongst a sea of many. But in some cases, it may be true, 4 months into a relationship is too soon for that sort of talk so why are we always in such a rush?
IVY’s Red Carpet Watch At The Pre-Oscars Luncheon
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4 months is too soon, but it also depends on your age, not because you are running out of time, but because i find the older you get the more you know what you want. If two people can’t agree on what they like/ want after 4 months then they should move on. No more puppy love unfortunately.
Completely agree.
Ivy, I live in London, the European capital of casual dating and even I would say four months is too long to wait for an answer! When you met your fiance, I bet you knew well before 4 months that you had something special. So why should Dina waster her time with Hani if he’s not sure about her after 4 months? That’s long enough to get a feeling for someone. You ever heard of the happily married couple who just kinda dated casually for months and months, then one day decided to get married? No. True love doesn’t even need this “where are we going?” conversation, you just both know in your heart.
I dunno ladies, I’m on the fence about this one, I mean I totally sided with Sally here http://ivysays.com/2011/10/25/a-good-enough-reason-to-break-up-with-him/, when Mark reacted the way he did about meeting her parents, but this time it’s a little different, Hani is not saying he doesn’t want something serious, he’s just asking her to slow down and see how things naturally develop without making promises he can’t keep. I think 4 months is too soon to decide if the relationship had a future,I really do.
It kinda is.. but again, every relationship is different. i know ppl who got engaged after 4 months ( it was the guy who insisted) i don’t think there is a certain formula or stereotype. If i like a guy, i like him, if our situation (financial, emotional ect) allows us to to take the next step into at least talking about it, y not. They say u always know when he’s the one. u just know. Good luck to them both. i’m still stuck at work -_- that’s my issue now :p
Ivy, how would you feel if a guy said to you after four months that he still wasn’t sure if there was anything serious in it and he just wanted to casually date? I think women instinctively know if a guy is into us (read He’s Just Not That Into You) and it sounds like Hani just wasn’t that into Dina! p.s. Jessy, same issue, also stuck at work :/
I don’t think it’s a big deal if a guy decided after 4 months that he isn’t planning on getting serious just yet, that’s cause I think 4 months is a very short interval to make a serious plan. On the contrary I would prolly freak out if a guy was ready to get serious after only 4 months.
Hani has been seeing Dina twice a week, their relationship is considered casual.
Here’s the thing- I’ve never asked a guy where a relationship is going/ Like you said it’s instinctive and I would feel it and act accordingly. And I have dated a guy for over a year without having or asking for any sort of guarantee. I’m a firm believer in the fact that things need evolve naturally and if they aren’t developing then obviously one of us isn’t into the other, but that doesn’t mean I would put it to the test after only four months. Why the pressure to slap a label on things so soon?
Ivy, be completely honest…after four months with your current guy, did you know how he felt about you? My guess is he was crazy about you if he subsequently proposed to you (correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought you’re engaged). If Dina had to ask for clarification, it’s probably because she could feel Hani wasn’t that into her. Girl is allowed to have some standards! I think, certainly in London, we’re expected to be uber casual about everything but this gives guys the green light to mess girls around. Now, I take a much firmer approach and haven’t looked back.
cmon it’s 4 months! That’s a lonnng time to ask just if he’s serious about it!! And he refused to say he takes her seriously after so long, she must be feeling not so appreciated, you’d feel the same too. And the poor guy probably just wanted a fun date the whole time, nothing more, and she is not there just for his entertainment..
i think people might have a different idea of what serious means- maybe each person should define what they mean by that planning for mariage, exclusive/not an open relationship, etc
I agree with you Ivy, I think we are rushing things too soon these days 4 months is too little to say Ok, I want a future with you blah blah, I think girls these days are just starting to get desperate for what society tells them to do 🙂
Some girls r under a lot of pressure yes. but it doesn’t mean asking someone what the next step is , equals to asking if they wanna get married. Just wanna know what the next step is. moving along. it has nothing to do with rushing marriage, there are sooo many steps before that.
” hello”
” i like u”
“let’s date ”
“meet my friends, family”
“do we wanna continue getting to know each other”
” i think i’m in love, wanna move in?”
“u think u wanna b exclusive & make u mine?”
” let’s plan a day”
” let’s get married” -_- so many steps..
if she’s asking for the ring and he’s not ready then to each his own, she is. he isn’t . tough shit for us. also, men need to man up sometimes. where have all the cowboys gone?
OK So IVY invited me to comment, so here we go..
I Have 2 Types of Comments. The One that this Article is kinda Asking for… and What i personnaly think:
1) The Post is asking for someone who should say:
YES 4 MONTHS IS TOO SOON!! What’s The Rush! Ba3dein, the Poor Hani Did say that let’s “See” how things develop… which is COMPLETELY Acceptable to 99.8% of the Girls… Ba3dein Who do she think she is, She said she’s independant, successful and she’s easy going… What happened!!!! Oh Poor Hani… There should Not Be Marriage before at least 3 Years of Long Mature Relationship 😛
Ma heick? I’ve always admired your Subjectivity IVY, but The way you were dramatizing how things happened, i couldn’t help not to see how biased you were to your friend.. as if the girl has “NO SIDE OF THE STORY” :).
2) The way i think, is that there’s no Right or Wrong in relationships, and there’s Certainly No “the 10 Commandements of Relationships”. What works for someone may not work for other, and what WORKED for a Couple my be illogical and inapropriate or i even un-ethical for some, some people fall madly in love after 3 dates, 2 months later they were engaged and they are living happily with kids, and some spent 5-6 years together and they DIDN’T End up married (and guess what, the reason was …. ummm, ma ttafa2na ktir)!
Maybe Dina was a Gold Digger and her meter is running or maybe she’s this adorable person who was hurst so much before, she is trying to be BRAVE and trust another man FOR HER LIFE in a country filled with AS$%^&*#LES and she really needed a small thing that says “I won’t hurt you” (Girls always say LOUD things while sometimes they really are looking for a simple answer)… Saying “i’m not fooling around” to a girl is completely legitimate, and is Genuinly Good enough and is not liable as a marriage proposal; and unless his actions are not Showing that… His Words should Loudly Confess that (Because Unlike Girls, Guys can always denie they meant it… until they SAY IT… Just like “I Love You”)..
Anyhow there’s a zillion reason why both act the same way they did;
The last serious relationship i was in, lasted 4 months; I was madely in love with the girl, and I was mature enough to know what i wanted, and i even bought the Diamond Ring while taking a Course in Cambrige, and the Small “Heart” Red Ring Box from Turkey one my way Back, and i planned the proposal i dreamed about if i meet the right person, and wanted to propose at the same place we first met, and on 20-10-2010 20:10; and guess what, we broke up less than 2 weeks before…
You See some things are not meant to be… even if the stars were aligned.. But Please & Always try to see BOTH Sides of the Story.. and NO it has Nothing to do with The Country, with the Era we live in or with the Culture…
Sorry for the long reply 😛 (you did say Enlighten us in your Tweet)
Cheers,
SC
Samer thanks for commenting
To be honest, I wanted a guy’s perspective since us ladies are stereotyped as being more emotionally driven than our male counterparts etc but judging from your reply, I see that’s not the case at all.
You say
“Oh Poor Hani… There should Not Be Marriage before at least 3 Years of Long Mature Relationship ”
Really Samer? Do you have any doubt in your mind that it’s a fantastic idea for a couple to spend 3 mature years together before taking the plunge? I don’t see how that can be so absurd to you, I just don’t. What’s wrong with a couple taking as long as it takes to get to know each other before committing their entire lives together? How can that ever be a bad thing? I would much spend as much time getting to know someone than having to deal with a failed marriage.
Next you say
“i couldn’t help not to see how biased you were to your friend.. as if the girl has “NO SIDE OF THE STORY” .”
I’ve specifically linked to another post I’ve written about my other friend Sally and incident with Mark, in which he freaked out about meeting her parents. I totally sided with Sally’s side and I think she did the right think leaving him, although the case is quite similar to Hani’s. Does that still make me biased?
I usually write about stories that happened with people I know, not simply because they are my friends, but because I love to hear different perspectives on the issue. And now I side with Hani, not because he is my friend, I’m sorry that’s how this post made you feel, but let me let you in on a little secret, when a girl constantly tells a guy she’s different than the rest, she’s independent, she doesn’t want what all girls want and then suddenly wants to talk the marriage talk four months down the line- that does and will come as a surprise to any rational person.
I agree with your second point, there is no black and white when it comes to love, it’s all circumstantial. But I don’t understand your little tirade about “she is trying to be BRAVE and trust another man FOR HER LIFE in a country filled with AS$%^&*#LES and she really needed a small thing that says “I won’t hurt you”” I think you’re the one that being a little dramatic here and jumping to far conclusions, in this case, Dina knew very much Hani wasn’t fooling around with others, she specifically wanted a promise for the near future, something Hani just couldn’t commit to, and I respect him for his honesty. People usually either dodge that question or tell people what they want to hear, Hani didn’t, he told her straight up what his intentions are, while leaving a good window open for the future.
I’m sorry about your last relationship and I hope you can find the right girl for you one day, thanks again for commenting.
I enjoyed reading your comment, Seriously!
But I also felt that (as i told you on twitter) you may have received & perceived my comment not as i intended it to be… So some clarifications / additional comments 😛 are required.
First, i don’t agree with what I WROTE in #1 and i stated that before i actually written it :-)… My opinion is #2, but to reply to your comment on #1.. Here you go…
YES i think it’s a fantastic Idea for a Couple spending AS MUCH TIME as they NEED to get to know each others and AS LONG AS IT TAKES for them to decide on a life committing decision… What i DON’T Agree on (and that was kinda the Opening of my #2) is that you can’t Bound the “As much time” to a MINIMUM Like placing “4 Months” in the category of “What’s the Rush?” and 3 Years in the “Acceptable” category.
There are Lots of True Love Stories, Amazing Marriages, Proposals, Novels, Movies, you name it.. for Couples who met in countries where not only LIVING together is Socially accepted but Also having Kids without Marriage is Not a Social Crime (in France they even Get Legal Rights!)… so there’s no “RUSH” whatsoever for the couple to even take that move anytime in the future… and YET SOME of them, they do Meet, Date and Marry in 6 Months (or Even Less :P)! (and people cry happy tears in the end of that movie :P)… What should we do to that example couple IVY? Crucify them? you did compared (while not being Biased at all 😉 ) Asking where the relationship is going as a: “she finally dropped THE BOMB on him :)”… The Poor Guy again 😛
I’m going to Skip on the “Secret” thing for now… and ask you this.. did you talk to this girl? and saw her point of view? maybe read her facial expressions, learned how your friend was treating her? if yes, why don’t you post your “findings” for the rest of us to see!
and Finally, I didn’t dramatize and say “she is trying to be BRAVE and trust another man…” I Actually Said ” ****Maybe Dina was a ~~Gold Digger~~ (Ommiting the Word B**CH out of respect) and her meter is running or **maybe** she’s this adorable person who was hurst so much before, she is trying to be BRAVE and trust another man FOR HER LIFE******…. ” But i don’t judge people before i really know them as there might be as there’s always room for a different perespective (Quoting from me) “Anyhow there’s a zillion reason why both act the same way they did; ”
Thank you!
SC | Your #1 Fan without Regrets 😉
Hehehe ma heykkkk ma ento elbanet el lebneniyeee betsa7bo deghre because ou’re not independent and you constantly want someone to support you financially
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